Again Afghanistan

This is a reiteration and update of my past posts on this fraught subject.

Our government says it is committed to the principle of 'evidence-based policy'; let us see this followed in this situation where we are faced with continuing needless expenditure of 'Blood and Treasure'.

The oft-repeated justification for this, Britain's 4th Afghan war, is that it is to keep the street of Britain safe by preventing Al Qaeda's use of Afghanistan as a base.

There is little evidence in the public domain which supports this assertion; indeed the reverse is true.

On 20th July Eliza Manningham-Buller gave evidence the Chilcot inquiry on Iraq. Baroness M-B was Director General of the UK Security Service MI5 from 2002 to 2007. She said she had warned what many senior Whitehall officials believed in 2003: that the invasion of Iraq would increase the terrorist threat to the UK.
More than once, the former head of MI5 emphasised to the Chilcot inquiry that the invasion exacerbated the terrorist threat to the UK and was a "highly significant" factor in how "home-grown" extremists justified their actions.
"Our involvement in Iraq radicalised a few among a generation of young people who saw [it] as an attack upon Islam," she said.
Manningham-Buller said she was therefore not surprised that UK citizens were involved in the 7/7 suicide attacks in London or by the increase in the number of Britons "attracted to the ideology of Osama bin Laden" who saw the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan as threatening their co-religionists and the Muslim world".
The invasion of Iraq "undoubtedly" increased the terrorist threat in Britain.

The recent detailed disclosures of the actions of the NATO forces in Afghanistan via Wikileaks can only exacerbate the situation.

Other eminent speakers in Parliament have recently suggested that the real issue is that failure in Afghanistan would lead to wider conflict involving China, India and Pakistan.
Our attention should logically be directed to addressing this – e.g. by fostering an equitable solution to the Kashmir problem – and leaving the Afghanis to sort out their tribal rivalries internally.

In May Liam Fox described Afghanistan as a “broken 13th-century country”.
This is one area where I agree with him.

Here is a quotation from a display at Auschwitz:-
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana; 1905

Evidence for policy making:-
1. There is no effective central government in Afghanistan. This has not changed since Churchill's analysis of 1897! (or even the 13th century.)
2. The Kazai regime is corrupt.
3. Opium production continues unabated; this serves to fund the Afghan 'insurgency' whilst creating huge consequential costs in our own society.

Conclusions:-
1. Deal with local tribal leaders; motivate them to deal with 'insurgents' whom they can identify far more readily than can 'coalition' [LibDemCon?] forces.
2. Disrupt the Taliban supply chain; Control opium production; by buying it at source and/or destroying it.
3. Invest in development not pay for war.

Why are we sending our men out on patrol to be targets for snipers and IEDs without an accompanying group of ANA soldiers?

Present and Past Posts

1. Responses to Tobias Ellwood: J June 2009/July 2010
2. Gordon's Justifications (Brownian Motions) 18th August 2009
3. Milly Molly Mandy on Afghanistan: Today, today 21st August 2009
3a email to David Miliband 21st August 2009
4. International Terrorism: FBI Names 24th August 2009 updated 26/7/10
5. David Cameron on Afghanistan today 6th September 2009
6. Afghanistan Adventure 216/830 17th September 2009

7. Correspondance with Government via FCO 18th September 2009
8. Afghanistan: Letter to Lord Avebury 25th September 2009
9. Cameron’s War 29th June 2010


1. Responses to Tobias Ellwood: June 2009/July 2010

14th June 2009 The Blue Blog
http://www.conservatives.com/News/Blogs/We_must_provide_greater_reconstruction_support_in_Afghanistan.aspx

26th July 2010 Conservativehome
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2010/06/tobias-ellwood-mp-if-were-serious-about-successfully-concluding-military-operations-in-afghanistan-w.html#comment-6a00d83451b31c69e2013485b5bd9e970c

The Lessons of History

The First Anglo–Afghan War lasted from 1839 to 1842. ... It marked one of the worst setbacks inflicted on British power in the region after the consolidation of India by the British East India Company.

The Second Anglo-Afghan War .. lasted from 1878 to 1880. .. Abandoning the provocative policy of maintaining a British resident in Kabul, but having achieved all their other objectives, the British withdrew.

The Third Anglo-Afghan War - 6 May 1919 to 8 August 1919. .. It was essentially a minor tactical victory for the British in so much as they were able to repel the regular Afghan forces, in many ways it was a strategic victory for the Afghans.

The Soviet war in Afghanistan was a nine-year conflict
The initial Soviet deployment began on December 24, 1979. The final troop withdrawal began on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989. Due to the interminable nature of the war, the conflict in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviet equivalent of the United States' Vietnam War.

"The inhabitants of these wild but wealthy valleys are of many tribes, but of similar character and condition. The abundant crops which a warm sun and copious rains raise from a fertile soil, support a numerous population in a state of warlike leisure. Except at the times of sowing and of harvest, a continual state of feud and strife prevails throughout the land. Tribe wars with tribe. The people of one valley fight with those of the next. To the quarrels of communities are added the combats of individuals. Khan assails khan, each supported by his retainers. Every tribesman has a blood feud with his neighbor. Every man's hand is against the other, and all against the stranger." - Winston Churchill 1897


2. Gordon's Justifications (Brownian Motions) 18th August 2009

What are we doing in Afghanistan? A review of Al Qaeda inspired activity

Our leader is widely quoted – although not on government web pages.

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8203711.stm
UK deaths in Afghanistan pass 200

Mr Brown said their efforts were helping to make the world safer and that progress had been made in allowing forthcoming Afghan elections to take place.
"We have created space in which we can have Afghan government, Afghan police and Afghan forces and that will make it very difficult for the Taliban and Al Qaeda to reassert themselves,"
"Three quarters of the terrorist plots that hit Britain derive from the mountain areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan,"
"And it is to make Britain safe and the rest of the world safe that we must make sure we honour our commitment to maintain and keep a stable Afghanistan." 

There is no published evidence to support this assertion.

The situation is reminiscent of another triumph of foreign policy which produced the following parliamentary resolution (voted down by New Labour):-
Iraq — Weapons of Mass Destruction Inquiry - 4 Jun 2003 - Division No. 217
This House
* recalls the Prime Minister's assertion that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction capable of being used at 45 minutes' notice;
* further recalls the Government's contention that these weapons posed an imminent danger to the United Kingdom and its forces;
* notes that to date no such weapons have been found; and
* calls for an independent inquiry into the handling of the intelligence received, its assessment and the decisions made by ministers based upon it.

Analysis of Past Attacks

11 September 2001 - “911” Attack
American Airlines Flight 11
Hijackers: Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian), Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian), Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).
United Airlines Flight 175
Hijackers: Marwan al-Shehhi (from the United Arab Emirates), Fayez Banihammad (from the United Arab Emirates), Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).
American Airlines Flight 77
Hijackers: Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian), Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian), Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian), Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian), Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).
United Airlines Flight 93
Hijackers: Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese), Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian), Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).

7 July 2005 London bombings
Bombers:-
Mohammad Sidique Khan – born in Leeds
Shehzad Tanweer – born in Bradford
Germaine Lindsay - born in Jamaica
Hasib Hussain – born in Leeds

21 July 2005 London bombings
Bombers:-
Yasin Hassan Omar: originally from Somalia and arrived in the UK as a child dependent of asylum seekers, in 1992. He was granted indefinite leave to remain in 2000.
Ramzi Mohammed: originally from Eritrea and arrived in the UK as a child dependent of asylum seekers in 1990, and was granted residency in 1992. Also reported to be a Somali National.
Muktar Said Ibrahim: originally from Eritrea and arrived in the UK as a child dependent of asylum seekers in 1990, and was granted residency in 1992
Manfo Kwaku Asiedu: Ghanian
Osman Hussain: born in Ethiopia, a naturalised British citizen.

29 June 2007 London car bombs
Bilal Abdullah
Kafeel Ahmed

30 June 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack
Attackers:-
Bilal Abdullah: British-born, of Iraqi descent
Kafeel Ahmed: Indian Muslim 

Other Sources

http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2009/08/where-do-the-terrorists-come-from/
Where do the terrorists come from? August 16, 2009 4:11pm by Jim Pickard
I was struck by Gordon Brown’s insistence today that: “Three-quarters of the terrorist plots that hit Britain derive from the mountain areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan and it is to make Britain safe and the rest of the world safe that we must make sure we honour our commitment to maintain a stable Afghanistan.”
I also noticed Labour MP Caroline Flint making the same point on morning TV.
But - I’m not a Foreign Office expert - I thought I’d read somewhere else that three-quarters of terrorist plots in Britain came from Pakistan per se.
Yes, here it is, back in the spring. From Mr Brown himself: “Three quarters of serious plots investigated in the UK were connected to Pakistan.”
In other words, they are not necessarily anywhere near where we are fighting. (Karachi, where I grew up, is 1,104 km from Peshawar in the mountains).
This seems seriously disingenuous.
The duty press officer at the Foreign Office wasn’t able to answer this one yesterday. Nor did Gordon Brown’s spokesman have the exact details of the stats this morning beyond saying that the UK faced a major threat from people on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.
“I don’t think we can necessarily pinpoint exactly where each of these plots orginates…the point that we set out in April is that we need to tackle security in that border area.”
Um, where does the statistic come from then?
I’m told by one reporter who visited Pakistan on the PM’s jet earlier this year that the figure was then said to be closer to 60 per cent than 75 per cent, although I have no proof of this.
(By the way, worth pointing out that it only covers recent years - and so excludes Northern Ireland incidents.)
Now I stop to think about it, maybe most of the people on the list are UK citizens who happen to have relatives in Pakistan? If so, what relevance do they have to our battle in the “mountainous areas”? Do we actually know?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/14/mumbai-terror-attacks-india
Gordon Brown: 75% of UK terror plots originate in Pakistan
Gaby Hinsliff in Islamabad guardian.co.uk, Sunday 14 December 2008
"Three quarters of the most serious plots investigated by the British authorities have links to al-Qaida in Pakistan. Our aim must be to work together to do everything in our power to cut off terrorism” [Gordon Brown] told a press conference in Islamabad.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/concoughlin/6040956/Afghanistan-Our-fight-is-against-terror-and-tyranny---not-just-the-Taliban.html?state=target#postacomment&postingId=6052127
Afghanistan: Our fight is against terror and tyranny - not just the Taliban

"Up to 90 per cent of the recent Islamist terror plots against Britain have originated from the lawless terrain that straddles Afghanistan's southern border with Pakistan."

Gordon Brown said 75%.
Can anyone substantiate these numbers?
Else, they could be as reliable as Bliar's (sic) "45 minutes" scare story.


3. Milly Molly Mandy on Afghanistan: Today, today 21st August 2009

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8213000/8213516.stm

David Miliband interviewed by John Humphrys on the Today programme 21/8/09

Where are the real facts claimed by Milly?

DM “The security of Britain depends, to a considerable extent, on the degree to which terrorism is suppressed in the badlands between Afghanistan and Pakistan. ....”
JH “ ...How can we justify the British military presence there, except on the basis, which is now the justification for it that it will keep the streets of Britain safer, which of course many people dispute anyway”
DM “I don't think many people do dispute that. I mean it's a fact ....”
JH ” Oh, but surely the do. They point out that, for instance, the London bombers had no connection whatsoever with Afghanistan. It was a home grown plot”
DM “Well, hang on. They certainly did have – there are very significant links to what I call the badlands between the border country between Afghanistan....
JH “But it's pretty tenuous isn't it?”
DH “No, it's not tenuous John ....
JH “A significant link. What does a link mean?”
DM “..... When we say that over 70% of the terrorist plots that are pursued in Britain have links to the badlands between Afghanistan and Pakistan, we're talking about ungoverned space that is used for training, that is used for planning, and that in its ultimate form was used for planning 911 but which is also used for training, yes, British citizens, who go to Afghanistan or Pakistan for training. That is a deadly practice and its very important that I'm able to explain to British people on programmes like this that we don't say, in a flip manner, that this a security challenge of the highest order. It's based on real fact about murder that's being
done to British citizen both in Britain and around the world from this place.”

3a email to David Miliband 21st August 2009

Dear Mr Miliband
From your interview on the Today programme with John Humphrys this morning:-
as above-
The facts currently in the public domain on the origin of terrorist attacks are listed below.
I request that you provide evidence supporting the "real fact" to which you allude.

11 September 2001 - “911” Attack
7 July 2005 London bombings
21 July 2005 London bombings
29 June 2007 London car bombs
30 June 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack
Names as listed in in Section 2 above

An answer of sorts was eventually provided - See 7.below


4. International Terrorism: FBI Names 24th August 2009 updated 26/7/10

Not much mention of Afghanistan here

URL http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm

WANTED as at 24/8/09

Rank Name Place of Birth Citizenship

1 Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabian
2 Adam Yahiye Gadahn United States American
3 Daniel Andreas San Diego Berkeley, California American
4 Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah Egypt Egyptian 
5 Ayman al-Zawahiri Egypt Egyptian 
6 Ali Atwa Lebanon Lebanese
7 Anas al-Liby Libya Libyan
8 Fazul Abdullah Mohammed Moroni, Comoros Islands Comoros, Kenyan
9 Hasan Izz-al-Din Lebanon Lebanese
10 Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali Egypt Egyptian 
11 Jaber a. Albaneh Yemen Yemeni
12 Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan Kenya Kenyan
13 Abdul Rahman Yasin Bloomington, Indiana American
14 Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam Kenya Kenyan
15 Ahmad Ibrahim al-Mughassil Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabian
16 Ali Saed bin Ali el-Hoorie Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabian
17 Saif al-Adel Egypt Egyptian 
18 Ibrahim Salih Mohammed al-Yacoub Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabian
19 Ramadan Abdullah Mohammad Shallah Gaza Palestinian
20 Abd al Aziz Awda Gaza Palestinian
21 Isnilon Totoni Hapilon Philippines Philippine
22 Mohammed Ali Hamadei Lebanon Lebanese
23 Jamel Ahmed Mohammed Ali al-Badawi Yemen Yemeni
24 Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed al-Nasser Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabian

WANTED as at 26/7/10 - new names
Name Place of Birth Citizenship
Fahd Al-Quso Aden, Yemen Yemini
Husayn Al-Umari Jaffa, Palestine Unknown
Wadoud Muhammad Hafiz Al-Turki Baghdad, Iraq Iraqi, poss. Palestinian
Abdul Rahman Yasin Bloomington, Indiana US
Jamal Saeed Abdul Rahim Lebanon Palestinian, poss. Lebanese
Muhammad Abdullah Khalil Hussain Ar-Rahayyal Lebanon Palestinian, poss. Lebanese
Muhammad Ahmed Al-Munawar Kuwait Palestinian, poss. Lebanese
Ibrahim Salih Mohammed Al-Yacoub Tarut, Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabian
Adnan G. El Shukrijumah Saudi Arabia Guyanese

URL http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/terrorismsi.htm

SEEKING INFORMATION as at 24/8/09
Name Place of Birth Citizenship
1 Mas Selamat bin Kastari Singapore Singaporean
2 Noordin Mohammad Top Malaysia
3 Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan Kenya
4 Amer El-Maati Kuwait
5 Adnan G. El Shukrijumah Saudi Arabia
6 Faker Ben Abdelazziz Boussora Tunisia
7 Abderraouf Jdey Tunisia

SEEKING INFORMATION as at 26/7/10 - new name
Abdullah Al-Rimi Ta'iz, Yemen Yemeni


5. David Cameron on Afghanistan today 6th September 2009
www.conservatives.com/News/Blogs/Why_we_are_in_Afghanistan.aspx

“We need to make it clear to the British people why we’re in Afghanistan. It’s simple – to stop terrorism here in Britain. We must help the Afghans to stop their country from once again hosting the world’s most dangerous terrorists. So we need to train and equip the Afghan army to root out terrorists, and to support them until they can do this for themselves. “

My Response on the Blue Blog (yet again!)

Plus ca change...
Winston Churchill 1897 quote as above

More
We will always be "the stranger".
Better equipment is not the answer; consider the Russian experience.
Train the Afghan army by all means - but do it in Pakistan, or India, or Sandhurst.
Stifle the supply chain into Afghanistan and its funding via the opium trade - is it not cheaper to buy the entire crop than suffer the consequences of the alternative?
I (and others) have asked Brown/Miliband/Straw to justify their contention that the threat of terrorism "on streets of Britain" is linked to Afghanistan/Pak.


6. Afghanistan Adventure 216/830 17th September 2009

From The Times September 18, 2009
General David Petraeus: allied failure ‘would intoxicate terrorists’
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6839321.ece

The Generals say;-
“no quick fixes” = a 40 year commitment?
"NATO had yet to find the right formula for success" - what constitutes success?
Lessons of history.

This is Britain's 4th Afghan adventure.
The Russians failed despite huge amounts men and materiel.
Why will it be different this time?

Of course, we have yet to deploy the most valuable (costly) weapons in our armoury: Eurofighters, nuclear submarines, Trident missiles...
Think of the difference their use would make.

Meanwhile...
"Italy wants to withdraw its troops from Afghanistan as soon as possible, Silvio Berlusconi said yesterday after a suicide bomber killed six Italian soldiers in one of the worst attacks suffered by a Nato contingent in Kabul."


7. Correspondence with Government via FCO 18th September 2009

On 21/08/2009, Richard Tebboth wrote:

Dear Mr Miliband

From your interview on the Today programme with John Humphrys this morning:-
…
The facts currently in the public domain on the origin of terrorist attacks are listed below.
I request that you provide evidence supporting the "real fact" to which you allude.

From JB@fco.gov.uk
to richard.tebboth@gmail.com date 18 September 2009 15:11
subject RE: Afghanistan Aberrations

Dear Mr Tebboth,

Thank you for your email to the Foreign Secretary dated 21 August 2009. As an officer with responsibility for Afghanistan, I have been asked to reply.

There is no question that Afghanistan under the Taliban was a safe haven for terrorists to use as a base from which to plan and implement attacks against the international community. Our involvement in Afghanistan is as vital to ensuring our security in 2009 as it was in 2001, and it is focused on an enduring aim as expressed by the Prime Minister in a statement to the House of Commons in December 2007: “denying Al Qaida a base from which to launch attacks on the world.”

Your email raises your concern about the nationalities of those involved in terrorist attacks and whether they had links to Afghanistan. Regardless of the nationality of the perpetrators, the majority of significant attack plots against the UK have links to Al Qaeda and/or other militant groups in the border areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the UK-based networks linked to them. This has been illustrated in a number of high-profile terrorism trials in recent years; for example, the trial relating to the plot, disrupted in January 2007, to kidnap and murder a British soldier. Furthermore, the conflict in Afghanistan remains ideologically significant for Al Qaeda and the draw of Afghanistan for extremists worldwide is significant in providing Al Qaeda in Pakistan with recruits and finances.

Your email includes a transcript of an interview which raises the issue of ‘home grown’ terrorism. With regards to British nationals, our strategy for preventing terrorism includes working with the Afghan and Pakistani governments as well as building resilience in UK communities. The police and security services work hard to disrupt those who wish to travel to undertake terrorist activity abroad. Where they have evidence or intelligence that individuals wish to travel abroad to commit terrorist acts, the police will act to disrupt this travel using a range of powers available to them.

The UK also recognises that extremists across the world continue to use the presence of Western forces in Afghanistan to radicalise vulnerable individuals. We are, therefore, not complacent about the importance of engaging with Muslims in Britain and elsewhere to explain the UK’s role in Afghanistan. We have implemented a programme of outreach to Muslim communities around the UK by Ministers and senior officials to engage on a variety of foreign policy issues which are of most concern to those communities, including Afghanistan. We are also committed to engaging with the general public more widely in the UK and international community to explain our foreign policy goals.

From RT to JB

Dear JB

Thank you for your email.

It is difficult to comment on the events in 2001; the relationship between the Taliban and Al Qaeda is not well understood; given bin Ladan's background one could probably construct a significant Saudi link.

Ii is my view that our efforts in Afghanistan are ineffectual in “denying Al Qaida a base from which to launch attacks on the world” but are too easily portrayed in the madrassah culture as being anti-moslem. They are also clearly proving disruptive within Pakistan.

"The inhabitants of these wild but wealthy valleys are of many tribes, but of similar character and condition. The abundant crops which a warm sun and copious rains raise from a fertile soil, support a numerous population in a state of warlike leisure. Except at the times of sowing and of harvest, a continual state of feud and strife prevails throughout the land. Tribe wars with tribe. The people of one valley fight with those of the next. To the quarrels of communities are added the combats of individuals. Khan assails khan, each supported by his retainers. Every tribesman has a blood feud with his neighbour. Every man's hand is against the other, and all against the stranger." - Winston Churchill 1897

We are "the stranger".

You say "the majority of significant attack plots against the UK have links to Al Qaeda and/or other militant groups in the border areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the UK-based networks linked to them"; I would be grateful if you would direct me to the evidence supporting this claim.
This assertion has repeatedly be made by government ministers associated with numbers like 70% or 75%; this implies at least 10 such plots. There is little evidence in the public domain of any large number of plots; what evidence is available points to the few plots being almost exclusively "home-grown".

Returning to the military situation:-
This is Britain's 4th Afghan adventure; the previous three ended in ignominy.
The Russians failed despite the investment of huge amounts men and materiel.
Why will it be different this time?

JB has not replied as at 29/7/10


8. Afghanistan: Letter to Lord Avebury 25th September 2009

On Wednesday 23rd September there was a "fringe meeting at the LibDem conference which was addressed by Lord Avebury and attended by inter alia the Afghan ambassador.

Dear Lord Avebury,

I was at the Muslim/Afhanistan meeting in Bournemouth on Wednesday and raised the question about the identity of the "insurgents"

To reiterate and expand the question:

"Insurgent implies outsider. Who are the insurgents?

Why do the Afghan population harbour them?

Are we not seen as the insurgents?

You argued the necessity for the continued presence of our armed forces but with the imperative that they only be applied military targets.

If we cannot identify the insurgents this is impossible.
Indeed, given the inevitable (and horribly euphemistic) "collateral damage" to the civilian population, our actions exacerbate matters.

Lessons of history: this is our 4th Afghan adventure; what makes it different this time?

Surely, our only rational and achievable objective should be to empower the local communities to resist insurgency whether labelled "Taleban" or "al Queda" or even "another ethnic group" by training the Afghan National Army and police force.

Bright idea?
To assist this process: there are significant numbers of Afghan young men seeking to get to the UK as refugees. We could allow them in on condition that they undergo military training and then return to Afghanistan to directly contribute to the establishment of the Rule of Law thereby removing their need to be refugees.

I would remind you of your own words from 4th December 2008:-
"My Lords, a few hours ago the Minister said that we invaded Afghanistan to prevent it becoming a haven for international terrorism. She did not remind your Lordships that that was also one of the excuses given for the invasion of Iraq, which, as President Mubarak said at the time, was likely to create 100 bin Ladens. He was probably out by a factor of 10, but that has happened. It has also involved us, as the noble Baroness said, in a £700 million contribution so far towards reconstruction, has placed huge burdens on our Armed Forces, and is an ingredient in the motivation of terrorists across the world."

I would also remind you of the words of another (then) Liberal:-
Winston Churchill 1897 quote as above.


9. Cameron’s War 29th June 2010

Comment on Times article
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/leaders/article2579794.ece
Afghanistan is the Prime Minister’s conflict and he needs to clarify his aims over commitment and exit strategy

It is reported that some 77% of the UK public are in favour of early withdrawal;

the available evidence supporting the contention that our presence is necessary to make the streets of Britain safe is minimal;

the cost in immediate "blood and treasure" is immense - as are the consequential costs of caring for the returning troops;

the lessons of history of Britain's previous three Afghan adventures - as well as those of the Russians - go unlearned;

there was a much trumpeted "success".in delivering a turbine to the Kajaki dam - it lies uninstalled; 
opium production continues thereby funding the insurgency and causing further consequential damage to our society.

"Let's call the whole thing off".